1 00:00:03,300 --> 00:00:08,500 [Music] 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:11,209 so some of this is about Cleve Baxter's 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:12,570 work so if any of you are familiar with 4 00:00:18,140 --> 00:00:14,370 that or read this you can life of plants 5 00:00:21,769 --> 00:00:18,150 I mean this will be familiar so just 6 00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:21,779 starting out so in the plant field sort 7 00:00:26,779 --> 00:00:24,750 of there's an emerging field called 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:26,789 plant neurobiology where people are kind 9 00:00:34,190 --> 00:00:30,210 of appreciating the electrical side of 10 00:00:37,299 --> 00:00:34,200 plants and as mentioned the last talk 11 00:00:40,130 --> 00:00:37,309 j.c.bose was one of the pioneers of that 12 00:00:41,450 --> 00:00:40,140 and so sort of more mainstream people 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:41,460 are recognizing that plants might have 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:45,450 memory and recognize self versus other a 15 00:00:54,470 --> 00:00:51,570 sort of thing but it's but it's it's 16 00:00:56,900 --> 00:00:54,480 they're still not haven't gone this far 17 00:01:00,979 --> 00:00:56,910 today to the Baxter type effects so 18 00:01:03,979 --> 00:01:00,989 Cleve Backster back in the 60s sort of 19 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:03,989 both sorry he's a Baxter's a lie 20 00:01:08,210 --> 00:01:05,970 detector expert he teaches people how to 21 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:08,220 use lie detectors and so one night he 22 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:10,320 got the idea to hook up a lie detector 23 00:01:14,870 --> 00:01:12,060 to a plant and see what happens when he 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:14,880 watered it and he's expecting 25 00:01:18,380 --> 00:01:16,530 conductance to go up but then it 26 00:01:21,380 --> 00:01:18,390 actually went down and I saw it 27 00:01:23,420 --> 00:01:21,390 which he thought looked like a person's 28 00:01:25,310 --> 00:01:23,430 response to like a positive emotional 29 00:01:28,399 --> 00:01:25,320 stimulus so this guy I'm intrigued and 30 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:28,409 he's so he tried so he tried to do other 31 00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:30,210 things that might evoke a reaction and 32 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:33,600 so he thought maybe that he would burn 33 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:35,430 try to burn the plant and see what 34 00:01:40,670 --> 00:01:37,770 happens and so then this is what he 35 00:01:42,679 --> 00:01:40,680 found so this is the original chart 36 00:01:45,050 --> 00:01:42,689 recording and right here is where he 37 00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:45,060 decided to go get the matches to burn 38 00:01:49,670 --> 00:01:47,220 the plant so there's this huge response 39 00:01:54,679 --> 00:01:49,680 that it seems to be the plant detecting 40 00:01:56,780 --> 00:01:54,689 this threaten threatening uh intent so 41 00:01:59,090 --> 00:01:56,790 did other things or like maybe I have 42 00:02:01,550 --> 00:01:59,100 two plants have somebody stop on one 43 00:02:04,130 --> 00:02:01,560 plant take the other that are taken at a 44 00:02:06,230 --> 00:02:04,140 plant put it in a room hook it up to the 45 00:02:07,550 --> 00:02:06,240 lie detector have some other people walk 46 00:02:09,469 --> 00:02:07,560 in there's no response from the plant 47 00:02:11,839 --> 00:02:09,479 the one the person who stomped on the 48 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:11,849 plant comes in that there's a response 49 00:02:13,570 --> 00:02:13,110 from the plant that looks like a human 50 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:13,580 fear 51 00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:16,970 spots so indication maybe they can 52 00:02:23,170 --> 00:02:19,310 somehow they're able to recognize people 53 00:02:25,570 --> 00:02:23,180 or threat other way of recognizing 54 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:25,580 threats I mean he also found that the 55 00:02:32,530 --> 00:02:28,490 plants seemed to respond to his emotions 56 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:32,540 even over long distances so it seemed 57 00:02:38,430 --> 00:02:35,330 that there's particularly that there may 58 00:02:41,290 --> 00:02:38,440 be some sort of bond that's formed by 59 00:02:42,790 --> 00:02:41,300 the when you take care of a plant it 60 00:02:45,700 --> 00:02:42,800 seems to maybe tune in to you somehow 61 00:02:48,070 --> 00:02:45,710 and so he found that even if he say he 62 00:02:50,830 --> 00:02:48,080 set up the plant set up a recording and 63 00:02:53,410 --> 00:02:50,840 then went out in town maybe a mile away 64 00:02:55,690 --> 00:02:53,420 and sort of started an argument with 65 00:02:57,190 --> 00:02:55,700 somebody something and then can note at 66 00:03:01,030 --> 00:02:57,200 the time and came back to the lab at 67 00:03:03,220 --> 00:03:01,040 that time time of the argument there's a 68 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:03,230 response to the plant so it's indicating 69 00:03:10,780 --> 00:03:04,930 somehow there's some sort of long 70 00:03:14,710 --> 00:03:10,790 long-distance connection and then one of 71 00:03:18,580 --> 00:03:14,720 the studies that he that he published on 72 00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:18,590 this was looking at another phenomenon 73 00:03:21,820 --> 00:03:19,820 and he found there seeing that plants 74 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:21,830 seem to be sensitive to things dying in 75 00:03:26,650 --> 00:03:24,050 the nearby environment so I think he 76 00:03:30,340 --> 00:03:26,660 first one of the first things that 77 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:30,350 tipped him off was that they were they 78 00:03:33,940 --> 00:03:31,910 were reacting and whenever people went 79 00:03:36,820 --> 00:03:33,950 and used the bathroom or that men's 80 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:36,830 bathroom and it seemed that the even the 81 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:38,810 urinal that when the cells in the urine 82 00:03:44,850 --> 00:03:40,640 hit the urinal disinfectant cake the 83 00:03:47,229 --> 00:03:44,860 plant seemed to react so so he did 84 00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:47,239 developed an automated experiment where 85 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:50,480 he's using this contraption which is 86 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:54,170 there's a some heated water here and 87 00:03:59,380 --> 00:03:56,120 then these cups one cup had brine shrimp 88 00:04:01,440 --> 00:03:59,390 in it the other cup had just water and 89 00:04:04,210 --> 00:04:01,450 then they would sort of randomly dump 90 00:04:06,699 --> 00:04:04,220 and then the brine shrimp would die I 91 00:04:09,610 --> 00:04:06,709 guess in the in the water and so he's 92 00:04:11,259 --> 00:04:09,620 found that the plants were detecting 93 00:04:16,630 --> 00:04:11,269 this when the when the brine shrimp were 94 00:04:21,099 --> 00:04:16,640 being dumped the plants reacted but this 95 00:04:22,719 --> 00:04:21,109 was some of this so after the book the 96 00:04:25,470 --> 00:04:22,729 secret life of plants came out this kind 97 00:04:26,790 --> 00:04:25,480 of became a big deal and 98 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:26,800 there were some replication attempts 99 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:29,890 that didn't succeed so this one this was 100 00:04:36,270 --> 00:04:32,170 the most prominent one it was published 101 00:04:39,810 --> 00:04:36,280 in science but there were some problems 102 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:39,820 with it so we're so backs are found that 103 00:04:45,570 --> 00:04:43,690 you needed to he found that if he dealt 104 00:04:47,460 --> 00:04:45,580 too much for the plants beforehand they 105 00:04:50,850 --> 00:04:47,470 seemed to pay attention to the people I 106 00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:50,860 mean not to the shrimp so he went to 107 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:52,360 great lengths to have people not 108 00:04:56,430 --> 00:04:53,710 connected to the experiment bringing the 109 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:56,440 plants and they sort of the 110 00:05:02,760 --> 00:04:57,970 experimenters dealt with them minimally 111 00:05:05,310 --> 00:05:02,770 but in this guess Tiger paper they 112 00:05:08,070 --> 00:05:05,320 actually the experimenters water the 113 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:08,080 plants right before which maybe as a way 114 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:10,450 that those connections are formed and 115 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:12,880 they wash the leaves off and so they're 116 00:05:16,230 --> 00:05:14,110 touching the plants and this sort of 117 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:16,240 thing so it's entirely possible that 118 00:05:21,330 --> 00:05:19,570 they basically messed up here and got 119 00:05:22,890 --> 00:05:21,340 too much of a connection with the plants 120 00:05:27,150 --> 00:05:22,900 and the plants weren't paying attention 121 00:05:29,070 --> 00:05:27,160 to the shrimp and if you look at their 122 00:05:31,020 --> 00:05:29,080 data it's actually exactly a lot of 123 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:31,030 responses they just don't they aren't 124 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:31,510 responding 125 00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:36,700 something it's just something else so 126 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:39,520 that's so I think once this paper came 127 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:41,170 out I sort of dampened people's 128 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:44,050 enthusiasm but but it there are some 129 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:46,210 problems with it in what and you could 130 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:50,770 see why it might not succeed all right 131 00:05:56,910 --> 00:05:53,410 let's skip this okay so what I did so I 132 00:05:58,440 --> 00:05:56,920 met with Cleve and he suggested that the 133 00:06:00,600 --> 00:05:58,450 best way to do that to find these 134 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:00,610 reactions is just a spontaneous emotion 135 00:06:05,820 --> 00:06:03,430 and so his suggestion was just have the 136 00:06:08,370 --> 00:06:05,830 plan set up and just have conversations 137 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:08,380 with people and kind of see what happens 138 00:06:15,380 --> 00:06:11,650 and so that's what I did so I just had 139 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:15,390 and so here's the setup I it was just a 140 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:19,650 regular GSR galvanic skin response 141 00:06:26,030 --> 00:06:22,630 electrodes mount there with onto the 142 00:06:29,340 --> 00:06:26,040 leaf with just regular contact gel 143 00:06:33,330 --> 00:06:29,350 there's this kind of thing they used on 144 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:33,340 a person but so kinetic skin responses 145 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:35,080 in the proper term I guess for plants 146 00:06:41,210 --> 00:06:36,090 but 147 00:06:44,030 --> 00:06:41,220 it's the same thing and so yes I had 148 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:44,040 basically conversations and then I did 149 00:06:48,590 --> 00:06:46,130 some other control things with just 150 00:06:51,379 --> 00:06:48,600 different sounds and playing trying 151 00:06:54,110 --> 00:06:51,389 music and changing the temperature and 152 00:06:56,060 --> 00:06:54,120 motion and this kind of thing but the 153 00:06:59,180 --> 00:06:56,070 conversations were we're in the same 154 00:07:03,560 --> 00:06:59,190 room the people or multiple people 155 00:07:07,460 --> 00:07:03,570 having a conversation and then the setup 156 00:07:09,230 --> 00:07:07,470 was that basically I had it the going 157 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:09,240 into the computer so the output was on 158 00:07:14,810 --> 00:07:12,180 the screen and I started low-tech but I 159 00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:14,820 videotaped the screen for the output and 160 00:07:19,820 --> 00:07:18,270 then the microphone was capturing what 161 00:07:23,270 --> 00:07:19,830 the conversation at the time so that's 162 00:07:25,310 --> 00:07:23,280 how I kind of connected the data but I 163 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:25,320 covered the screen so this is something 164 00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:27,300 so that the people couldn't see it so 165 00:07:33,379 --> 00:07:30,360 this was something Baxter noted and this 166 00:07:36,379 --> 00:07:33,389 is needs needs more study but that he 167 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:36,389 found that it seemed like if you're 168 00:07:41,090 --> 00:07:39,570 watching the results as they happen sort 169 00:07:43,909 --> 00:07:41,100 of the watch pot that doesn't boil that 170 00:07:47,930 --> 00:07:43,919 they don't seem to result something to 171 00:07:49,370 --> 00:07:47,940 come out and I kind of that seemed that 172 00:07:50,570 --> 00:07:49,380 way too so I ended up covering the 173 00:07:53,330 --> 00:07:50,580 screen and then things seemed to work 174 00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:53,340 out better so that that's true that it's 175 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:55,440 very interesting and could use a lot of 176 00:08:01,219 --> 00:07:57,330 study on its own sort of epistemological 177 00:08:05,930 --> 00:08:01,229 feedback something and then yet just a 178 00:08:08,029 --> 00:08:05,940 regular GSR and let's see so so the way 179 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:08,039 I coded the data was just looking at 180 00:08:14,930 --> 00:08:13,110 four second intervals so in looking at 181 00:08:16,219 --> 00:08:14,940 whether there was a response or not from 182 00:08:18,860 --> 00:08:16,229 the plant and though in those time 183 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:18,870 periods and looking at what was going on 184 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:20,910 whether there was a motion in the 185 00:08:25,279 --> 00:08:22,530 conversation was whether it was just 186 00:08:28,370 --> 00:08:25,289 talking whether I was talking to the 187 00:08:29,779 --> 00:08:28,380 plant and whether there's movement to 188 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:29,789 these sorts of things so I was just sort 189 00:08:35,990 --> 00:08:32,130 of categorizing in this each four second 190 00:08:36,860 --> 00:08:36,000 interval what's going on and then so 191 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:36,870 yeah so there were eight different 192 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:39,510 sessions five five and a half hours and 193 00:08:46,460 --> 00:08:42,930 it was a plant that I his name is boo 194 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:46,470 tanika's that as my I had for a few 195 00:08:54,030 --> 00:08:51,030 and yeah it had kept in my room for a 196 00:08:56,970 --> 00:08:54,040 while so it was a plant that I had for a 197 00:09:01,050 --> 00:08:56,980 while and all these conversations were 198 00:09:06,330 --> 00:09:01,060 were me with people I knew and so yeah 199 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:06,340 so here's the data so so what we found 200 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:08,890 is in intervals that contained emotion 201 00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:13,570 almost applet or 44% of the time or so 202 00:09:18,990 --> 00:09:17,350 there's responses from the plant and 203 00:09:22,650 --> 00:09:19,000 some of these are they're small but 204 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:22,660 they're but they're and baseline is like 205 00:09:28,710 --> 00:09:26,230 two three percent so this the p-value 206 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:28,720 here is like 10 to the negative 70 or 207 00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:31,630 something ridiculous so there's a huge 208 00:09:36,870 --> 00:09:33,880 difference and probably the better 209 00:09:38,820 --> 00:09:36,880 comparison is talking so just all 210 00:09:40,860 --> 00:09:38,830 talking instances of talking versus 211 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:40,870 emotion because there you have all the 212 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:44,110 same things going on pretty much except 213 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:45,520 for that that here there's a motion 214 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:47,410 present and here there isn't that's 215 00:09:53,610 --> 00:09:51,010 still very significant so so we're 216 00:09:55,860 --> 00:09:53,620 having so there's this huge effect that 217 00:09:57,810 --> 00:09:55,870 the plants are responding to the motion 218 00:09:59,280 --> 00:09:57,820 and then I also did some other things I 219 00:10:01,350 --> 00:09:59,290 didn't really test these systematically 220 00:10:03,390 --> 00:10:01,360 but like when I talked to the plant 221 00:10:05,490 --> 00:10:03,400 there seemed to be a fair number of 222 00:10:10,350 --> 00:10:05,500 responses and if I time doctor myself 223 00:10:12,060 --> 00:10:10,360 and it did too but but they're also 224 00:10:14,220 --> 00:10:12,070 times when I dressed the camera saying 225 00:10:15,870 --> 00:10:14,230 like okay this is whatever day it was or 226 00:10:17,310 --> 00:10:15,880 session or what I was going to do and 227 00:10:19,380 --> 00:10:17,320 they sorts of things and there's almost 228 00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:19,390 no responses to that there weren't as 229 00:10:23,190 --> 00:10:22,000 many trials for that but so I mean 230 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:23,200 there's some interesting things that I 231 00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:25,210 didn't test as much music there seem to 232 00:10:36,690 --> 00:10:32,230 be very little response to so so yeah so 233 00:10:38,490 --> 00:10:36,700 and then also you have other things that 234 00:10:43,050 --> 00:10:38,500 sort of set it off movement moving 235 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:43,060 nearby I don't think it's the same 236 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:45,310 mechanism and I don't know what it it is 237 00:10:49,290 --> 00:10:47,770 but the but you get a lot of responses 238 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:49,300 but if you move if you just walked by 239 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:51,310 the plant or whatever so if anyone knows 240 00:10:55,350 --> 00:10:52,690 about that I'd be curious because 241 00:10:57,660 --> 00:10:55,360 there's the fields seem to change but 242 00:11:00,210 --> 00:10:57,670 also at least some cell phones just 243 00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:00,220 wreaked havoc with the signal so there'd 244 00:11:04,220 --> 00:11:01,920 be just wild well 245 00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:04,230 signal going on in the plant well people 246 00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:06,600 are using the phone so it's another kind 247 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:09,990 of interesting thing but uh that's 248 00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:13,889 that's Botanica stairs it was smaller 249 00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:17,519 than in the experiment they come a big 250 00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:24,120 plant says so ok so so yeah so the data 251 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:27,110 is very I mean I'm very pleased with it 252 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:29,370 but there are definitely some 253 00:11:36,170 --> 00:11:35,130 limitations this so I mean just in 254 00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:36,180 general with these sorts of 255 00:11:41,780 --> 00:11:39,360 consciousness things so there's 256 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:41,790 spontaneity seems very important that we 257 00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:44,370 have get these nice all these nice 258 00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,959 responses and so we have to use sort of 259 00:11:53,389 --> 00:11:50,399 different methods and sort of the 260 00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:53,399 typical scientific approach of using the 261 00:11:59,780 --> 00:11:56,100 same stimuli over and over and seeing 262 00:12:01,639 --> 00:11:59,790 what happens I like to think like like 263 00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:01,649 telling a joke right the first if you 264 00:12:04,220 --> 00:12:03,120 tell someone a joke it might be funny 265 00:12:06,740 --> 00:12:04,230 and they laugh but then if you tell them 266 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:06,750 it again the same joke again and again 267 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:08,490 and again right after another they're 268 00:12:12,139 --> 00:12:10,170 not not laugh but it doesn't mean that 269 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:12,149 jokes not funny right so it's just you 270 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:14,310 have to you just have to approach it 271 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:19,890 differently so see ya so my sample size 272 00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:25,290 is rather limited one plant but maybe 273 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:26,880 since this is replicating other results 274 00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:28,500 hopefully that's not too too big of a 275 00:12:33,439 --> 00:12:31,470 problem but what I'd like to do is so 276 00:12:35,930 --> 00:12:33,449 another thing is seems this connection 277 00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:35,940 with people the plan and the person may 278 00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:39,480 be a vital factor and so it'd be good to 279 00:12:43,970 --> 00:12:42,600 have maybe have people come in who are 280 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,980 close to their plants or something and 281 00:12:47,230 --> 00:12:45,360 bring a plant to the lab and that kind 282 00:12:51,530 --> 00:12:47,240 of thing 283 00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:51,540 another thing the broom set up was the 284 00:12:55,220 --> 00:12:53,100 plant was right there kind of next to 285 00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:55,230 the people would be better to have some 286 00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:56,880 separation and maybe a different 287 00:13:01,850 --> 00:13:00,000 shielding and that would help us figure 288 00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:01,860 out me what's going on with the with the 289 00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:03,420 nature of the signal right so whatever 290 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:05,190 however the plants picking this up we'd 291 00:13:10,009 --> 00:13:07,410 like to be able to you know block 292 00:13:11,889 --> 00:13:10,019 potential forms of signal and in order 293 00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:11,899 to see what's it's actually going on 294 00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:13,120 some of the 295 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:15,790 the facts are tried though he did say 296 00:13:19,470 --> 00:13:17,890 put a tried like a Faraday cage I think 297 00:13:21,630 --> 00:13:19,480 it looked like a Ledge shielded room and 298 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:21,640 it still seemed to work so this would 299 00:13:27,870 --> 00:13:23,980 indicate that it's not electromagnetic 300 00:13:31,019 --> 00:13:27,880 unless it's some sort of frequency that 301 00:13:34,769 --> 00:13:31,029 these things are blocking and then also 302 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:34,779 just how I coded things it was just sort 303 00:13:39,269 --> 00:13:36,760 of listening to the conversation that 304 00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:39,279 sort of judging what was whether there 305 00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:43,240 was motion present or not which could be 306 00:13:49,290 --> 00:13:46,870 better so so nice a nice way of doing 307 00:13:51,150 --> 00:13:49,300 that might actually be to have people 308 00:13:53,010 --> 00:13:51,160 the subjects worked up to GSR at the 309 00:13:55,290 --> 00:13:53,020 same time because it's sort of a nice 310 00:13:58,050 --> 00:13:55,300 measure of emotion especially negative 311 00:14:01,140 --> 00:13:58,060 emotion which is see what seems to be 312 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:01,150 what people are responding to so people 313 00:14:06,990 --> 00:14:05,050 being embarrassed or surprised or the 314 00:14:08,610 --> 00:14:07,000 sort of thing rather than being happy 315 00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:08,620 that doesn't seem to evoke as many 316 00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:13,720 responses and so yeah so theoretically 317 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:16,240 I'll just keep this short it seems that 318 00:14:20,070 --> 00:14:17,970 maybe this is some sort of non-local 319 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:20,080 connection and entanglement but that 320 00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:22,810 just seems sort of the best the closest 321 00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,820 thing that might explain given that this 322 00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:26,560 this these effects seem to happen over a 323 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:28,720 distance and that maybe they're not 324 00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,450 electromagnetic and yeah so that this 325 00:14:39,260 --> 00:14:36,959 spontaneity is and seems important and 326 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:39,270 we have these distant connections and 327 00:14:44,940 --> 00:14:43,360 it's nice because this is indicating I 328 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:44,950 mean that whatever this nature of the 329 00:14:49,710 --> 00:14:46,570 plant the plants are responding somehow 330 00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:49,720 so the big question is that there this 331 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:51,400 means plants are conscious or something 332 00:14:58,350 --> 00:14:54,970 and if and what it would show is that 333 00:15:00,480 --> 00:14:58,360 you know that the normal brain or neural 334 00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:00,490 system may not be may not be required 335 00:15:05,550 --> 00:15:03,040 for these sorts of sorts of things so it 336 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:05,560 sort of pushes pushes that understanding 337 00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:07,240 I think plants in general are good 338 00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:09,160 because it's just showing anything like 339 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:10,990 this I think kind of makes people think 340 00:15:15,180 --> 00:15:13,930 about things more on that at least in 341 00:15:18,019 --> 00:15:15,190 Western culture of people too generally 342 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:18,029 regard don't regard plants as as 343 00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:22,900 potentially conscious beings and they 344 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:24,220 also make good subjects because you 345 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:25,410 don't have any movement 346 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:29,610 facts or anything like that and so yeah 347 00:15:34,309 --> 00:15:31,410 and then just big questions about this 348 00:15:36,439 --> 00:15:34,319 signal and and why why it's like 349 00:15:50,740 --> 00:15:36,449 manifesting electromagnetically and so 350 00:15:58,460 --> 00:15:53,449 thank you very much and we already have 351 00:16:00,290 --> 00:15:58,470 one question right nearby so first of 352 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:00,300 all that was me who coud at your picture 353 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:01,290 of your plant 354 00:16:04,579 --> 00:16:02,970 I thought everyone reacted to Tom's 355 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:04,589 pictures of his children someone should 356 00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:10,860 react to your two I wanted to compliment 357 00:16:15,230 --> 00:16:13,649 you on your protocol design and where 358 00:16:17,119 --> 00:16:15,240 you're you aren't stressing the plant 359 00:16:19,579 --> 00:16:17,129 and it's this you know an animal source 360 00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:19,589 is the same thing they stress the animal 361 00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:22,110 yes so congratulations I'm not trying to 362 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:29,670 set fire to your baby but and then just 363 00:16:37,009 --> 00:16:32,250 this issue of entanglement you know you 364 00:16:38,629 --> 00:16:37,019 and the plant or with most of things in 365 00:16:40,850 --> 00:16:38,639 saira search its you always have to 366 00:16:43,009 --> 00:16:40,860 consider experimenter effect so have you 367 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:43,019 or other researchers who have done this 368 00:16:48,499 --> 00:16:46,110 plant consciousness considered how you 369 00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:48,509 could possibly try to control for is it 370 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:50,550 just even your non-local entanglement 371 00:16:59,179 --> 00:16:53,250 with your EEG and your GSR equipment 372 00:17:01,129 --> 00:16:59,189 right right yeah I mean the the what 373 00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:01,139 makes me think it may not be is like 374 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:06,270 this original sort of factors results 375 00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:08,970 here we go we're just a decision to go 376 00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:11,400 get matches sort of probably for him 377 00:17:15,289 --> 00:17:13,980 it's not like a huge psychological event 378 00:17:17,390 --> 00:17:15,299 it's just sort of okay yeah I'll go try 379 00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:17,400 this but then you get this big change in 380 00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:19,350 the plan so that kind of thing indicates 381 00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:22,140 that sort of asymmetry of it indicates 382 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:24,150 that it's coming more from the plant 383 00:17:29,149 --> 00:17:26,130 than the person but there's other things 384 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:29,159 yeah that it could be it's hard to it's 385 00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,890 hard to tell right right let's 386 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:35,360 we have a whole bunch of people who'd 387 00:17:39,610 --> 00:17:37,130 like to ask questions so let's do them 388 00:17:44,019 --> 00:17:39,620 very efficiently yes sir 389 00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:44,029 Glenn again so when I've done these kind 390 00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:45,919 of experiments in the past admittedly 391 00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:47,750 working with human cells and not plant 392 00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:51,200 cells I've observed opposite effects 393 00:17:56,860 --> 00:17:53,809 with different kinds of emotions ha ha 394 00:18:00,159 --> 00:17:56,870 and it appears that your data your 395 00:18:02,139 --> 00:18:00,169 effects are only showing effects in one 396 00:18:05,230 --> 00:18:02,149 direction so the question is have you 397 00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,240 seen any opposite effects and if not in 398 00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:07,039 the polarity of the response have you 399 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:09,230 seen any qualitative differences in the 400 00:18:13,629 --> 00:18:11,690 nature of the signal yeah I didn't look 401 00:18:15,460 --> 00:18:13,639 at that sort of systematically but there 402 00:18:17,950 --> 00:18:15,470 are definitely different patterns of way 403 00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:17,960 the responses are so yeah I should I 404 00:18:23,950 --> 00:18:20,559 should go back and look look at that 405 00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:23,960 dick cartoon you know I'm glad you've 406 00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:25,580 got that chart up there because you're 407 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:30,080 showing in effect before the actual 408 00:18:34,659 --> 00:18:32,570 action is taking place so one of the 409 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:34,669 things that occurs to me here is you 410 00:18:41,139 --> 00:18:37,970 know we tend to we all do view a plant 411 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:41,149 is an object something separate from us 412 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:44,210 as individuals and I guess I think that 413 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:47,210 may not be the case it occurs to me just 414 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:50,570 and I think you can test this the plant 415 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:53,090 actually may be like a mirror you know 416 00:18:57,009 --> 00:18:55,010 you look into a mirror on the wall and 417 00:18:58,750 --> 00:18:57,019 it reflects what you personally as an 418 00:19:01,149 --> 00:18:58,760 individual or doing and that sort of 419 00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:01,159 thing right so this plant maybe is 420 00:19:06,460 --> 00:19:02,960 acting or plants in general act as a 421 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:06,470 mirror of the person who's doing the 422 00:19:10,509 --> 00:19:09,200 experiment or whatever it is that you're 423 00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:10,519 intending to do for example you're going 424 00:19:16,570 --> 00:19:14,240 to burn it and of course that response 425 00:19:18,970 --> 00:19:16,580 is immediate but that response was you 426 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:18,980 know in the persons the operators 427 00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:21,200 intention right and so it isn't really a 428 00:19:25,509 --> 00:19:23,809 problem of precognition or something 429 00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:25,519 like that on the part of the plant you 430 00:19:32,889 --> 00:19:29,110 could test this probably by doing 431 00:19:34,299 --> 00:19:32,899 experiments with different operators if 432 00:19:38,399 --> 00:19:34,309 you will different people that have 433 00:19:42,340 --> 00:19:38,409 different relationships to like music or 434 00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:42,350 whatever various factors you use that 435 00:19:50,130 --> 00:19:44,260 you've been testing against 436 00:19:53,010 --> 00:19:50,140 okay just to come in yeah Chuck leer on 437 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:53,020 cellphone response okay were you able to 438 00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:55,809 differentiate what the difference in 439 00:20:01,140 --> 00:19:58,450 response was between with if the 440 00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:01,150 cellphone was just turned on or whether 441 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:03,190 somebody was actually talking it was 442 00:20:08,430 --> 00:20:06,130 when there actually a call was active 443 00:20:12,510 --> 00:20:08,440 yes it wasn't it was just present 444 00:20:13,860 --> 00:20:12,520 necessarily but if so sometimes if you 445 00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:13,870 have a cell phone your speaker and you 446 00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:17,230 hear that GGG buzz that would sometimes 447 00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:20,049 evoke responses in the plan so I don't 448 00:20:23,669 --> 00:20:21,880 know what's going on when the cell 449 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:23,679 phones are there if they're somehow up 450 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:25,450 linking or whatever but but yeah it 451 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:28,390 seems that did when that happens the 452 00:20:32,730 --> 00:20:29,830 plants also something there's also a 453 00:20:34,140 --> 00:20:32,740 response so yeah I don't mean to say 454 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:34,150 that the plants responding to that but 455 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:37,450 it's affecting the plants amount yeah hi 456 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:40,210 Luc Hendrix here my my question is about 457 00:20:45,030 --> 00:20:43,210 the people the subjects can you speak to 458 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:45,040 differences in responses to certain 459 00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:48,490 people yeah well it seems mainly to be 460 00:20:57,330 --> 00:20:54,880 responding to me and so but it did seem 461 00:20:59,070 --> 00:20:57,340 to be easy other other people too sorry 462 00:21:01,080 --> 00:20:59,080 yeah I should go back and look at more 463 00:21:02,940 --> 00:21:01,090 fine-grain dad sort of yeah which people 464 00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:02,950 it's responding quick quick comment and 465 00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:05,470 a question regarding the noise and the 466 00:21:08,970 --> 00:21:07,150 pickup with a cell phone uh-huh 467 00:21:12,030 --> 00:21:08,980 we found when we use a differential 468 00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,040 input on the galvanic skin response then 469 00:21:16,110 --> 00:21:14,080 we get rid of these pick-up effects Oh 470 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:16,120 as opposed so it's got to be floating 471 00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:19,690 and not not associated with ground okay 472 00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:23,320 second thing have you checked whether 473 00:21:30,299 --> 00:21:28,240 the reaction to people into you is due 474 00:21:32,190 --> 00:21:30,309 to something that might be chemicals 475 00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:32,200 such as pheromones because if you're in 476 00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:34,870 the same room as the plant then it very 477 00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:36,700 well may be picking up what you're 478 00:21:41,340 --> 00:21:39,220 physically emitting right right that's 479 00:21:42,450 --> 00:21:41,350 why I say it'd be better to do some 480 00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:42,460 different shielding and that kind of 481 00:21:47,549 --> 00:21:44,440 thing yeah so it could be and maybe 482 00:21:49,230 --> 00:21:47,559 that's why these responses are robust 483 00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:49,240 maybe it's both maybe it's also 484 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,160 pheromones or something but but yeah so 485 00:21:56,610 --> 00:21:53,280 either way it's interesting 486 00:21:59,010 --> 00:21:56,620 Brenda done first of all I want to 487 00:22:02,100 --> 00:21:59,020 commend you on this research I think 488 00:22:04,919 --> 00:22:02,110 this is a terribly important area of 489 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:04,929 study for those of us who are interested 490 00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:07,330 in the nature of consciousness there's a 491 00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:10,390 lot of work going on I can remember days 492 00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:13,270 when you couldn't say consciousness in a 493 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:16,360 khadeem you can say it now but so many 494 00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,049 people think you're talking about brain 495 00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:22,000 epiphenomena and i think if we can look 496 00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:25,030 at entities like plants and show that 497 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:27,460 they have an awareness of their 498 00:22:32,250 --> 00:22:29,710 environment and ability to interact with 499 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:32,260 it that's going to tell us an awful lot 500 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:34,510 about what questions we should be asking 501 00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:38,110 right I might also just mention very 502 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:41,380 briefly that many years ago we attempted 503 00:22:48,419 --> 00:22:45,850 a little pilot experiment where we set 504 00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:48,429 up an random event generator that 505 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:51,760 modulated a grow light or a series of 506 00:22:59,400 --> 00:22:56,049 grow lights and put it in a darkened 507 00:23:02,370 --> 00:22:59,410 room with the plant and although the 508 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:02,380 experiment didn't go on very far very 509 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:05,740 long the plant did manage to produce a 510 00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:09,250 very strong effect on the re G which had 511 00:23:16,890 --> 00:23:11,950 the ultimate effect of increasing the 512 00:23:19,890 --> 00:23:16,900 light and if anybody wants to explore 513 00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:19,900 that again I encourage them to do it we 514 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:22,840 put we plan to go back to that again but 515 00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:27,010 I will observe that the plant managed to 516 00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:28,960 get stronger effects than any human I've 517 00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:34,380 ever seen yeah one more brief question 518 00:23:40,020 --> 00:23:37,840 Lu Marin kovitch if you cut all the 519 00:23:42,299 --> 00:23:40,030 greenery off the plant and just left the 520 00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:42,309 roots the root ball would you get a 521 00:23:47,789 --> 00:23:45,820 response yeah I don't know I think 522 00:23:51,030 --> 00:23:47,799 there's a trunk there's a trauma aspect 523 00:23:53,450 --> 00:23:51,040 there too so yeah what's the calm down